The UK, says Oliver, had much better beer in its supermarkets long before the US, with Chimay and Dupont propping up shop shelves. “These are fantastic beers that we didn’t have in ours but the difference was we were making those types of beers, and you guys were not. Now, we have almost no British beers in the States and that’s a shame.”

For the chaotic UK scene to continue its upwards trajectory, Oliver believes that to do new things, you need the science and you need the creativity. You need something to say, and the ability to say it. And if you only have one side of that, then you can’t do it well.

“But that’s business, and it’s natural, but some of these breweries opening aren’t going to make it if what they’re producing just doesn’t cut it as people wise up. You have this movement, where local is everything, the same as in the US, but you need to get out there and get inspiration and influence from the world, not just what’s down the road from you,” he says.

“You should be brewing a good Pilsner or a Pale Ale consistently before you start putting stuff in wine barrels. Our name and that of Thornbridge is a promise that the beer is worth the money you spent and time spent drinking it. A good pint of Timothy Taylor’s is pretty much as good as anything you’ll find on earth, and that’s because they have perfected their art.”

And his advice to new breweries?

“People are not going to like this but piece of advice number one is go work for somebody else first. Why should you make all of your mistakes, which you will make, on the back of paying customers at your own brewery, go learn under somebody that knows what they are doing, soak up that knowledge and then go out on your own once you actually know something,” says Oliver.

“People want to be cool right now, but if you can’t put the beer in the bottle tasting brilliant every time then well, there is something very uncool about that in my opinion. I’ve done it myself, for five years and I am so glad I did that. I learned professional brewing before moving to Brooklyn Brewery. Yes you may know about things such as mash chemistry but I’m afraid that a professional brewery runs nothing like a home brewery and for a home brew setup there are no consequences, and if something goes wrong then so what, hopefully you had fun anyway.”

Oliver likens it to being a chef, or a musician. If you are a great one of those, you will bring it every night. It doesn’t matter if you are in a bad mood, or you have a cold, you will still perform and nail that.

“Look, I’m not saying it’s not fun, but it’s really hard work too. To stay relevant, you need to stay fresh, and keep up with those new ideas, and to do it for the right reasons. and I believe people will continue to do that.”